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Post by pdlglm on Jul 24, 2022 22:42:35 GMT -5
Updating the Vols since 1970 post. Fixing errors, adjusting the weird way I did the decades when I first did it. I am up to Bruce -will finish it this summer. Couple things... Mears was fantastic but worse than Barnes in the tourney. DeVoe really blew a golden opportunity. He had some good teams for a while and then just fell off the cliff. The 86 team was 11-7 (4-5) on Jan 30th after beating UGA with wins over #8 LSU and #10 Illinois and they proceeded to lose 9 of their last 10. They went winless on the road and only won once away from Stokely... Against Tex A&M in the Superdome. Buzz once went 14-3 at home and managed only 15 wins for the year. Bald Kevin #1 beat 1 ranked team in 3 seasons. Man he was an awful coach. Ok... here is the records attachment... TN since 1970.7.26.22.pdf (100.3 KB) Updated as of 10.15.2023 TN since 1970.10.15.23.pdf (157.72 KB) |
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Post by Stopspopsdrops83 on Jul 24, 2022 23:13:17 GMT -5
I don’t really believe Bald Kevin #1 was that bad a coach, an as- no doubt. Houston left the cupboard very bare and what was there, I believe Ed Gray and a decent point guard, transferred out immediately. Also Jerry Green went to 4 straight NCAA tournaments mostly on the back of Bald Kevin recruits plus Marcus Haislip which I believe was a Green recruit
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Post by Stopspopsdrops83 on Jul 24, 2022 23:33:03 GMT -5
One more thing to add about Bald Kevin and the radio days as I like to call them, most games still weren’t televised, he did absolutely hands down the best post game show I ever listened to. You just never knew what would come out of his mouth. I don’t miss the losing but I often miss John Ward and the radio days. Mississippi St. also had a good radio guy his name escapes me, maybe Munson?
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Post by brewii on Jul 25, 2022 6:00:22 GMT -5
One more thing to add about Bald Kevin and the radio days as I like to call them, most games still weren’t televised, he did absolutely hands down the best post game show I ever listened to. You just never knew what would come out of his mouth. I don’t miss the losing but I often miss John Ward and the radio days. Mississippi St. also had a good radio guy his name escapes me, maybe Munson? Believe Munson was at Georgia, but could be wrong. Kevin #1 could definitely recruit and coach defense but had a ways to go on the offensive end. Green definitely made some use of the talent that he left him but ultimately didn't do enough with what he had. |
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Post by gvt11 on Jul 25, 2022 8:01:46 GMT -5
Updating the Vols since 1970 post. Fixing errors, adjusting the weird way I did the decades when I first did it. I am up to Bruce -will finish it this summer. Couple things... Mears was fantastic but worse than Barnes in the tourney. DeVoe really blew a golden opportunity. He had some good teams for a while and then just fell off the cliff. The 86 team was 11-7 (4-5) on Jan 30th after beating UGA with wins over #8 LSU and #10 Illinois and they proceeded to lose 9 of their last 10. They went winless on the road and only won once away from Stokely... Against Tex A&M in the Superdome. Buzz once went 14-2 at home and managed only 15 wins for the year. Bald Kevin #1 beat 1 ranked team in 3 seasons. Man he was an awful coach. Thank you for your service. |
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Post by pdlglm on Jul 25, 2022 8:52:38 GMT -5
Bald Kevin #1 certainly has done enough career wise to cause people to think he can coach - but man he has lost pretty much everywhere he has coached.
Also, we had a stretch in the 90s where we finished last in the East 5 years in a row. The 90's is where the program was really wrecked. 6 sub .500 finishes.
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Post by gvt11 on Jul 25, 2022 8:56:04 GMT -5
Bald Kevin #1 certainly has done enough career wise to cause people to think he can coach - but man he has lost pretty much everywhere he has coached. Also, we had a stretch in the 90s where we finished last in the East 5 years in a row. The 90's is where the program was really wrecked. 6 sub .500 finishes. So true. When I hear folks disparage Tennessee basketball, what they are talking about is that Wade/KO stretch. Take that out (I know, I know) and you have a program better than anything in the SEC except KY. That Wade/KO stretch was just brutal. |
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Post by pdlglm on Jul 25, 2022 9:02:44 GMT -5
Bald Kevin #1 certainly has done enough career wise to cause people to think he can coach - but man he has lost pretty much everywhere he has coached. Also, we had a stretch in the 90s where we finished last in the East 5 years in a row. The 90's is where the program was really wrecked. 6 sub .500 finishes. So true. When I hear folks disparage Tennessee basketball, what they are talking about is that Wade/KO stretch. Take that out (I know, I know) and you have a program better than anything in the SEC except KY. That Wade/KO stretch was just brutal. I had forgotten that the 40-101 shellacking by TWWNBN in the SECT was actually at Rupp |
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Post by pdlglm on Jul 25, 2022 9:03:16 GMT -5
Also I can make a decent argument that the 1985 NIT was our best post season run ever as far as 'name' schools beaten in the post season... beat Virginia and Louisville... lost to Indiana. Finished 3rd in the NIT.
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Post by gvt11 on Jul 25, 2022 9:22:29 GMT -5
Also I can make a decent argument that the 1985 NIT was our best post season run ever as far as 'name' schools beaten in the post season... beat Virginia and Louisville... lost to Indiana. Finished 3rd in the NIT. Yep. I was there. Spent a week in NYC and was mesmerized by the city. As for the team, I really thought they were set for big success the next year. Had Tony White, Rob Jones, Fred Jenkins and Anthony Richardson returning. Richardson looked like a star in the making in that NIT. He made the five man All NIT team with Steve Alford, Billy Thompson and Uwe Blab. Had incoming freshmen Doug Roth and Anthony Richardson. That team was 22-15 and lost no significant contributors. Tennessee should have been loaded with players for a 2-3 year run. Instead, Richardson disappears, Roth is blind in one eye and it goes 12-16 and 14-15 the next two years. Those years sealed DeVoe's fate. |
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Post by awinatl on Jul 25, 2022 9:57:05 GMT -5
It’s actually amazing how little run Wade Houston gets and actually how awful he truly was. I mean just imagine how much worse he would’ve been if he didn’t have his son.
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Post by pdlglm on Jul 25, 2022 10:01:04 GMT -5
It’s actually amazing how little run Wade Houston gets and actually how awful he truly was. I mean just imagine how much worse he would’ve been if he didn’t have his son. I know it was a different time and coaches got a longer leash but it is hard to believe he got 5 seasons. He went 13-17 and lost to our most hated rival by 61 in the SECT (after having gone 12-22 just two years earlier) and they brought him back for another season - one where we went 5-22. He is the worst coach we have had during my lifetime in the three major sports. Though it is a close call between he and Bald Kevin #1. |
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Post by goldenjay on Jul 25, 2022 10:49:48 GMT -5
Updating the Vols since 1970 post. Fixing errors, adjusting the weird way I did the decades when I first did it. I am up to Bruce -will finish it this summer. Couple things... Mears was fantastic but worse than Barnes in the tourney. DeVoe really blew a golden opportunity. He had some good teams for a while and then just fell off the cliff. The 86 team was 11-7 (4-5) on Jan 30th after beating UGA with wins over #8 LSU and #10 Illinois and they proceeded to lose 9 of their last 10. They went winless on the road and only won once away from Stokely... Against Tex A&M in the Superdome. Buzz once went 14-3 at home and managed only 15 wins for the year. Bald Kevin #1 beat 1 ranked team in 3 seasons. Man he was an awful coach. I never quibble with your research and seldom with your opinions, but I think it is somewhat misleading, even if factually true, to say that Mears was worse than Barnes in the tourney. FWIW, I was a UT undergrad during the early years of Mears' tenure, which, IIRC, began in 1963--if I'm wrong you or somebody will correct me. In all his time at UT, Mears teams made the tournament only a handful of times between 1963 and 1977, but as many have said, the selection criteria for the NCAA tourney were far more restrictive in his era. Under current criteria, practically every one of his teams would have made it. Given that many opportunities to play in the tournament, a coach as good as Mears, with a team that played a style that was hard to prepare for, could have undoubtedly won more games than they did. There is also the fact that a first-round game in the Mears era was, in effect, a Sweet Sixteen game--no chance for a team to get accustomed to postseason play against an early cupcake, not to mention chances at several more wins in several seasons overall before running into the tougher competition. I would certainly agree that it is difficult to compare eras, but you seem to have done that, somewhat unfairly, with your Mears-to-Barnes comparison. |
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Post by pdlglm on Jul 25, 2022 11:16:12 GMT -5
Our first NCAAT appearance was in 1967. We were ranked 8th in the nation and got a bye - facing the winner of Dayton and Western Kentucky. Dayton beat us 53-52 and made a run to the championship game. Back then you played consolation games in the regionals and we lost that too, to Indiana by 7.
We wouldn't get back to the tourney until 1976, where we came in ranked 9th in the country and lost in the round of 32 to VMI. Now King was out with an injury but this was still a team with Ernie Grunfield (36pts against VMI) playing a team from the SoCon.
The next year we came into the tourney ranked 7th in the nation but somehow drew the 10th ranked Syracuse Orangemen in the first round down in Baton Rouge. 17th ranked Detroit Mercy played MTSU in the other game in that pod, because I guess they just drew names out of a hat for tourney games back then. We led by three at the half, but it was tied at the end of regulation and Syracuse won by 5 in OT. Grunfeld, King and Mike Jackson all fouled out.
So the Mears tourney ledger is 3 appearances and 4 losses.
I probably agree that if the tourney back then was like the tourney today that the record would be different. But it wasn't. He was 0-4 and upset in every tourney - though to be fair that last upset was minor.
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Post by cherokee04 on Jul 25, 2022 12:08:57 GMT -5
Our first NCAAT appearance was in 1967. We were ranked 8th in the nation and got a bye - facing the winner of Dayton and Western Kentucky. Dayton beat us 53-52 and made a run to the championship game. Back then you played consolation games in the regionals and we lost that too, to Indiana by 7. We wouldn't get back to the tourney until 1976, where we came in ranked 9th in the country and lost in the round of 32 to VMI. Now King was out with an injury but this was still a team with Ernie Grunfield (36pts against VMI) playing a team from the SoCon. The next year we came into the tourney ranked 7th in the nation but somehow drew the 10th ranked Syracuse Orangemen in the first round down in Baton Rouge. 17th ranked Detroit Mercy played MTSU in the other game in that pod, because I guess they just drew names out of a hat for tourney games back then. We led by three at the half, but it was tied at the end of regulation and Syracuse won by 5 in OT. Grunfeld, King and Mike Jackson all fouled out. So the Mears tourney ledger is 3 appearances and 4 losses. I probably agree that if the tourney back then was like the tourney today that the record would be different. But it wasn't. He was 0-4 and upset in every tourney - though to be fair that last upset was minor. My only thoughts on the Barnes/Mears comparison is that I agree with goldenjay that it is a somewhat apples to oranges comparison due to the much smaller field. We definitely underperformed, but another point is that the small sample size makes it pretty tough to compare as well. And during that time, Mears had UT in a couple of NIT's and a couple of other tourneys as well (one called the CCA, another the NCI - looking at the 8 team fields for each, neither was the joke they sound like at first). Here is a brief wiki article on that CCA tourney, with an interesting point made that it was run by the NCAA to try to kill the NIT, haha. It's a wikipedia article, so that may be some editorializing, but I don't doubt it: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1974_Collegiate_Commissioners_Association_TournamentUnfortunately, while we did pretty well in one of the NIT's, overall we still didn't do great in these non-NCAAT's, but again they were small fields and we didn't usually get to play a weak first round opponent. |
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