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Post by cherokee04 on Dec 5, 2024 13:44:41 GMT -5
Ray Mears, Don Devoe, Bruce Pearl... All had their moments in Big Orange Country, but it is becoming readily apparent that Rick Barnes is the GOAT of Tennessee men's basketball. How about this nugget from Mike Wilson of the News Sentinel... "The Vols have been ranked in the top five of the AP poll 28 times in the past seven seasons, including once this season. They had been ranked in the top five 17 times in the previous 70 years of the poll." After last season's Elite Eight (CRB's 2nd at UT), and now this start to the season, it is pretty hard to deny CRB has cemented his status as the most successful coach we've ever had. Pearl would likely be there had he not submarined his own tenure at UT, but he did. Mears will always be the Father of UT Basketball, and comparing NCAAT resumes from his day to what Pearl and Barnes have done is an apples and oranges comparison. But CRB has climbed the ladder, and has had an amazing consistency to his whole career. It would be the cherry on top if we could get a FF, but we've never had one so it is hard to judge him too harshly for that. |
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Post by pdlglm on Dec 5, 2024 14:01:49 GMT -5
He is the best coach we have ever had... and it is not particularly close. And I love Bruce Pearl, still to this day. But you are what your record says you are and Deacon's record at TN is unmatched. We have gotten to the point where being ranked in the top 5 is ho-hum. I don't know if we get the FF, I mean, we probably won't because it is TN basketball and its Barnes.
But we are one of the best teams in the sport year in and year out and we used to be a team that had to hang curtains on the upper deck of our arena because nobody would show up.
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Post by cherokee04 on Dec 5, 2024 15:14:31 GMT -5
He is the best coach we have ever had... and it is not particularly close. And I love Bruce Pearl, still to this day. But you are what your record says you are and Deacon's record at TN is unmatched. We have gotten to the point where being ranked in the top 5 is ho-hum. I don't know if we get the FF, I mean, we probably won't because it is TN basketball and its Barnes. But we are one of the best teams in the sport year in and year out and we used to be a team that had to hang curtains on the upper deck of our arena because nobody would show up. I've been persuaded now after a couple of more years of success and last year's Elite Eight that CRB is the best overall. I can't agree that it's not particularly close. What Mears and Pearl did is close. In Pearl's case, it likely would be spot on, with maybe more NCAAT success IF he hadn't self-immolated at UT. But he did, so that's that. Mears put us on the basketball map at a time when Kentucky was really the only deep south team the country paid much attention to. I do agree that we have become very accustomed to being ranked in the top five of the polls, etc. When CRB is done and we eventually go through a spell where we're happy to be in the top 25 again, we will think back on this period of our hoops history with maybe a touch of disbelief. |
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Post by pdlglm on Dec 5, 2024 15:41:11 GMT -5
He is the best coach we have ever had... and it is not particularly close. And I love Bruce Pearl, still to this day. But you are what your record says you are and Deacon's record at TN is unmatched. We have gotten to the point where being ranked in the top 5 is ho-hum. I don't know if we get the FF, I mean, we probably won't because it is TN basketball and its Barnes. But we are one of the best teams in the sport year in and year out and we used to be a team that had to hang curtains on the upper deck of our arena because nobody would show up. I've been persuaded now after a couple of more years of success and last year's Elite Eight that CRB is the best overall. I can't agree that it's not particularly close. What Mears and Pearl did is close. In Pearl's case, it likely would be spot on, with maybe more NCAAT success IF he hadn't self-immolate at UT. But he did, so that's that. Mears put us on the basketball map at a time when Kentucky was really the only deep south team the country paid much attention to. I do agree that we have become very accustomed to being ranked in the top five of the polls, etc. When CRB is done and we eventually go through a spell where we're happy to be in the top 25 again, we will think back on this period of our hoops history with maybe a touch of disbelief. Pearl made a run to the E8 but it was in a year where we really didn't have that great a regular season - and it came on the heels of a year where he was 1 and done in the tourney. The 'scandal ridden' season in 2010 had burned some equity and while I actually think he did a pretty good coaching job those last three years. He was beginning to catch some heat even aside from the drugs/guns deal and then the "ESPN timeline". My position then and now was that UT should have kept him. Eaten the 3 year penalty and rode it out. I still love the guy. But at this point the Vols have been ranked in the top 5 of the AP poll 28 times in the past seven seasons. We had been ranked in the top 5 17 times in the previous 70 years of the poll. Deacon has done what I thought Pearl would eventually do, completely alter the standard of what the basketball program can be. There is still room for him to elevate the program further, because we have never been an elite men's hoops program. But we are getting close to the point where he has solidified us as one of that next group of great hoops programs and if he could get to a FF, or dare I say multiple FFs or even win one (sorry, I know), then it completely changes where Vol basketball sits at the table. |
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Post by cherokee04 on Dec 5, 2024 16:59:43 GMT -5
I've been persuaded now after a couple of more years of success and last year's Elite Eight that CRB is the best overall. I can't agree that it's not particularly close. What Mears and Pearl did is close. In Pearl's case, it likely would be spot on, with maybe more NCAAT success IF he hadn't self-immolate at UT. But he did, so that's that. Mears put us on the basketball map at a time when Kentucky was really the only deep south team the country paid much attention to. I do agree that we have become very accustomed to being ranked in the top five of the polls, etc. When CRB is done and we eventually go through a spell where we're happy to be in the top 25 again, we will think back on this period of our hoops history with maybe a touch of disbelief. Pearl made a run to the E8 but it was in a year where we really didn't have that great a regular season - and it came on the heels of a year where he was 1 and done in the tourney. The 'scandal ridden' season in 2010 had burned some equity and while I actually think he did a pretty good coaching job those last three years. He was beginning to catch some heat even aside from the drugs/guns deal and then the "ESPN timeline". My position then and now was that UT should have kept him. Eaten the 3 year penalty and rode it out. I still love the guy. But at this point the Vols have been ranked in the top 5 of the AP poll 28 times in the past seven seasons. We had been ranked in the top 5 17 times in the previous 70 years of the poll. Deacon has done what I thought Pearl would eventually do, completely alter the standard of what the basketball program can be. There is still room for him to elevate the program further, because we have never been an elite men's hoops program. But we are getting close to the point where he has solidified us as one of that next group of great hoops programs and if he could get to a FF, or dare I say multiple FFs or even win one (sorry, I know), then it completely changes where Vol basketball sits at the table. I agree we should likely have kept him, but he had burned bridges with the Administration by lying to them (at least that was the story at the time). I think it had something to do with a violation of the bump rule (seeing a prospect at a high school during a time he was not supposed to). Now, if it happens incidentally, it's not a big deal. And I don't know how it happened with Pearl. I do know that here in B'ham most people believe that Saban routinely violated the bump rule by repeatedly "accidentally" bumping into prospects the same way, over and over, LOL. But UT parted ways with Bruce and that is that. And as you say, he had burned equity some already, and that has to be included in any evaluation of him as a coach overall. CRB has moved to the top spot in the Vol Hoops Mt. Rushmore. Yeah, I've become very familiar with the things Barnes has accomplished in the polls because they are part of every game preview I pull from utsports.com, and they have been cited ad nauseum by many (as they should be, because it is great pub for us as well). And I agree (and said) that I think Barnes has done what Pearl would have done had Bruce not screwed up a traffic citation by kicking the cop in the jimmies. We have never been elite for a sustained period, but we were in the neighborhood of elite for several seasons under Mears and Pearl. Mears would likely have a better nationwide reputation had the NCAAT been as inclusive as it is now, but some of his strong teams didn't even make it in given that UK was often the only SEC representative. But while Mears had similar consistency to Barnes, Pearl had a little more variability, though we never missed the Tourney under him. It's probably too late in college hoops history for us to ever achieve true blueblood status, but we have a very good national reputation over the long haul, which has been significantly enhanced by Barnes. The years of wandering in the wilderness in the latter DeVoe era up to the Pearl hire cost us a lot in terms of national reputation, and even among many younger Vol fans. But it will take that FF to really make it over the hump for most of us I think. |
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Post by John C. on Dec 5, 2024 20:19:46 GMT -5
"My position then and now was that UT should have kept him [Pearl]. Eaten the 3 year penalty and rode it out. I still love the guy."
It's a different discussion, but would any of you really want to look down at the Tennessee bench and see Steven F Pearl sitting courtside?? lol Nepo baby when he was a player, Nepo baby as an assistant coach...
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Post by pdlglm on Dec 5, 2024 23:23:24 GMT -5
"My position then and now was that UT should have kept him [Pearl]. Eaten the 3 year penalty and rode it out. I still love the guy." It's a different discussion, but would any of you really want to look down at the Tennessee bench and see Steven F Pearl sitting courtside?? lol Nepo baby when he was a player, Nepo baby as an assistant coach... I don't mind Steven and if it meant we could have a FF I would be ok with Kim Jong Un siting on our bench. |
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Post by bchilds on Dec 6, 2024 0:51:30 GMT -5
I want the final four. If it meant down years then the boom, I’d take it.
Yeah I get there are antics people maybe don’t like, but most fathers would do what Bruce has done. Steven hasn’t jumped directly into a head coaching job at a top 50 school. Stuck by his dad and there has been success.
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Post by cherokee04 on Dec 6, 2024 10:02:25 GMT -5
"My position then and now was that UT should have kept him [Pearl]. Eaten the 3 year penalty and rode it out. I still love the guy." It's a different discussion, but would any of you really want to look down at the Tennessee bench and see Steven F Pearl sitting courtside?? lol Nepo baby when he was a player, Nepo baby as an assistant coach... If we had a Final Four like basketball backwater Auburn has? Yes, I could find a way to live with Steven Pearl as an assistant. It hasn't appeared to hinder Auburn. |
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Post by graingermater23 on Dec 6, 2024 10:08:05 GMT -5
Both things are true IMO. Rick is better than Pearl. But we probably should’ve kept Bruce looking back on it. Us getting Rick was incredibly lucky. We could’ve just as easily been in the hole for several more years after Donnie’s departure.
If that were the case, imagine how sick we’d be over Bruce. Thank goodness that’s not the universe we live in
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Post by cherokee04 on Dec 6, 2024 10:15:24 GMT -5
Both things are true IMO. Rick is better than Pearl. But we probably should’ve kept Bruce looking back on it. Us getting Rick was incredibly lucky. We could’ve just as easily been in the hole for several more years after Donnie’s departure. If that were the case, imagine how sick we’d be over Bruce. Thank goodness that’s not the universe we live in In terms of accomplishments at UT, Rick is better than Pearl. I don't know that Barnes is better than Pearl straight up though. Their styles are very different, but the results are pretty comparable. CRB may be a touch more consistent season to season, and Pearl may be a touch better in the postseason, but the differences are pretty slim. |
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Post by pdlglm on Dec 6, 2024 10:59:59 GMT -5
Both things are true IMO. Rick is better than Pearl. But we probably should’ve kept Bruce looking back on it. Us getting Rick was incredibly lucky. We could’ve just as easily been in the hole for several more years after Donnie’s departure. If that were the case, imagine how sick we’d be over Bruce. Thank goodness that’s not the universe we live in We went from Donnie Tyndall to Rick Barnes. Just incredible the way it worked out. |
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Post by cherokee04 on Dec 6, 2024 11:56:39 GMT -5
Both things are true IMO. Rick is better than Pearl. But we probably should’ve kept Bruce looking back on it. Us getting Rick was incredibly lucky. We could’ve just as easily been in the hole for several more years after Donnie’s departure. If that were the case, imagine how sick we’d be over Bruce. Thank goodness that’s not the universe we live in We went from Donnie Tyndall to Rick Barnes. Just incredible the way it worked out. It's not at the same level, but it's similar to Bama's fortune in landing Nick Saban after Rich Rodriguez had already accepted the job, then changed his mind. |
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Post by John C. on Dec 7, 2024 1:30:16 GMT -5
Without belaboring the point but Bruce Pearl has engaged in nepotism regarding his son since his days at UT. Jeronne Maymon was undoubtedly a more skilled and talented player than Steven but Jeronne spent plenty of time warming the bench while the favored son was on the court. Bruce hired Steven at Auburn as an assistant strength coach, director of basketball operations, assistant coach and he now has the title of associate head coach. Bruce has not hidden his agenda that Steven should be named his successor upon his retirement. Bruce has had several Auburn media members push for the "coach in waiting" title for Steven. If that is part of the package for having Bruce as your head coach, I will gladly pass. I liked him while he was here. He brought energy and excitement to a moribund program. He also brought a sleaze factor in a number of the players he recruited and in his personal life. He left here under a show cause order. Barnes has recruited elite talent who fit the culture without a hint of ill repute. Not only has Barnes exceeded Bruce's success on the court, but he has done so as a gentleman of integrity and honor. Dave Hart had his failures but hiring Barnes ranks among the best hires in Vol athletic history.
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Post by cherokee04 on Dec 7, 2024 11:20:29 GMT -5
Without belaboring the point but Bruce Pearl has engaged in nepotism regarding his son since his days at UT. Jeronne Maymon was undoubtedly a more skilled and talented player than Steven but Jeronne spent plenty of time warming the bench while the favored son was on the court. Bruce hired Steven at Auburn as an assistant strength coach, director of basketball operations, assistant coach and he now has the title of associate head coach. Bruce has not hidden his agenda that Steven should be named his successor upon his retirement. Bruce has had several Auburn media members push for the "coach in waiting" title for Steven. If that is part of the package for having Bruce as your head coach, I will gladly pass. I liked him while he was here. He brought energy and excitement to a moribund program. He also brought a sleaze factor in a number of the players he recruited and in his personal life. He left here under a show cause order. Barnes has recruited elite talent who fit the culture without a hint of ill repute. Not only has Barnes exceeded Bruce's success on the court, but he has done so as a gentleman of integrity and honor. Dave Hart had his failures but hiring Barnes ranks among the best hires in Vol athletic history. Nobody here is unfamiliar with Bruce, warts and all. As far as the “nepotism” factor, Pearl is hardly the only coach out there who has had a son working on his staff. You can call it nepotism, but if it were violating any laws or rules, it wouldn’t have been allowed. I don’t agree that Barnes has exceeded Pearl’s accomplishments on the court in any way other than a longer career has allowed him to get more wins and tourneys. He HAS done more at UT than Pearl did, for the same reason. To my knowledge, very few people are bothered by the thought of Steven Pearl being an assistant. As I said, it hasn’t seemed to hurt Auburn. Every program and coach ends up with some bad apples. Barnes is certainly much better in that regard than most. As far as the coach-in-waiting stuff, that wouldn’t need to be a part of the package for having Bruce as coach. Only a weak school and AD with no backbone would agree to that. I’ll be shocked if Steven Pearl is Auburn’s next head coach, no matter what Bruce allegedly wants. |
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