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Post by bdpvols on Apr 2, 2024 13:53:38 GMT -5
we are gonna get screwed one way or the other. Maybe some player gets cancer his senior year, maybe he tears the labrum in his shooting shoulder, maybe we get a foul called for running into a shooter's outstretched leg with less than 5 seconds to play, maybe a 40% 3pt% shooter forgets how to shoot, maybe our center gets hurt in the 1st round game, maybe the best player we ever had hurts his hand before the 1st round game.... this year it was... maybe they let a 7-4 oaf with marginal athletic ability foul whenever he wants, change his mailing address to the lane and then they call fouls on anyone who glances in his general direction. At least it happened a game later this year. That pretty much the way I feel about it also. |
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Post by awinatl on Apr 2, 2024 14:14:25 GMT -5
we are gonna get screwed one way or the other. Maybe some player gets cancer his senior year, maybe he tears the labrum in his shooting shoulder, maybe we get a foul called for running into a shooter's outstretched leg with less than 5 seconds to play, maybe a 40% 3pt% shooter forgets how to shoot, maybe our center gets hurt in the 1st round game, maybe the best player we ever had hurts his hand before the 1st round game.... this year it was... maybe they let a 7-4 oaf with marginal athletic ability foul whenever he wants, change his mailing address to the lane and then they call fouls on anyone who glances in his general direction. At least it happened a game later this year. Or getting paired against an 11 or 9 seed for a trip to the Elite 8 |
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Post by afvolunteer on Apr 12, 2024 10:08:35 GMT -5
I'm old school. I love a good post game. Big guys should be able to use their strength to get positioning and get good shots, which is the exact goal of an offense. And Vol fans never had any problem when grant Williams would get matched up on some skinny stretch four and muscle him out of the way (often while drawing a foul).
BUT that game was ruined by the officiating. You can't have a defender stay vertical and get called for a body foul, while letting Edey get away with everything. Either let 'em go and beat the crap out of each other or call the fouls. I'm good either way, but don't have two sets of rules.
As an aside, I don't think this was an anti-UT conspiracy, and I don't think the coaches' pre-game comments had anything to do with it either way. (But there might be a Purdue-lost-to-a-sixteen-seed overreaction, and Virginia might have received a benefit of that in 2019 too.) This is how he's been called all year. I read some Big 10 blog that quoted some director of officials talking about how refs don't want to call star players for fouls, because that's what the fans pay to see (and I think there are several on this board that agree with that). But it's very different when the star player is not only the offensive focus but also the defensive/rebounding focus. If you let a scoring wing get away with a touch foul or two, it really doesn't impact the game much. If you apply different rules in the paint, it distorts the game entirely, and that game was as distorted as any I've seen. Oh well.
Sorry, just dipping my toe back to the board. But this response by context is a much more accurate and precise critique of the officiating that I had, I think my original post was a tad more emotional and "i-hate-everything"-like.  I don't love the way Edey is officiated, but I do concede that he earns most of his fouls. And probably he earns a few more that aren't called, just because his games already become free throw shooting contests and I'm sure the refs have some self-awareness of this fact. I think my bigger issue is he should have fouls called on him infinitely more than he actually does. We've seen over and over him going for rebounds and knocking guys down and there's either a no call or it's called on the opponent. Looks like a rugby scrum sometimes watching him box out. In the entire NCAAT (6 games), he was called for an average of only 2 fouls per game. That doesn't seem to match my lying eyes with his style of play. And when the competition really stepped up, from the Elite 8 and beyond, he was called for a grand total of 5 fouls in those 3 games combined, while only sitting on the bench less than 2 minutes total, spread across the 3 games. So in 118+ minutes of live action in the NCAAT's final 3 games, Edey was called for 5 total fouls. I also don't believe this was any sort of conspiracy, nor coaching commentary effect etc., I just think he's clearly hard to officiate especially when the ball isn't in his hands. The way he plays, he fouled significantly more than once every 24 mins which is how he was called against Tenn, NC State, and UConn. His screen attempts, his rebounding (over the backs) and his boxing out ought to lead to way more offensive fouls on him. And that's the rub. Edey even if officiated perfectly (according to me) probably wouldn't foul out of many games. But instead of having 0 or 1 foul on him by halftime, change a few of those to a more accurate 2 or 3 fouls, and now Painter has to make a decision and Edey probably can't play 39/40 mins as is normal. Then once Purdue's player of the year has to take some time out for legitimate foul trouble, like often happens with many other star players, I think it would lead to some more fair and equitable matchups. That or Edey would have to adjust his aggression on moving screens, going for rebounds, etc. and again would make portions of their games a tad more equitable, and as context alluded to, now he has to play by the same set of rules as say, Mashack or Santi, who picked up an accidental cheap foul. Rules just need to be consistent, and it appears it was just impossible to be with him. Not that mine is an original thought either, as I think a large portion of the country was actively cheering against Purdue in the championship game for this reason. Call me petty, but I was so happy to watch them lose. Glad he's gone and to quote an acquaintance of mine, I hope Purdue's entire athletic department catches cholera. |
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Post by afvolunteer on Apr 12, 2024 10:09:22 GMT -5
During the off-season, I know we sometimes rank teams we hate the most. I'd buy some stock in Purdue to shoot up that list for many of us.
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Post by cherokee04 on Apr 12, 2024 10:32:17 GMT -5
I'm old school. I love a good post game. Big guys should be able to use their strength to get positioning and get good shots, which is the exact goal of an offense. And Vol fans never had any problem when grant Williams would get matched up on some skinny stretch four and muscle him out of the way (often while drawing a foul).
BUT that game was ruined by the officiating. You can't have a defender stay vertical and get called for a body foul, while letting Edey get away with everything. Either let 'em go and beat the crap out of each other or call the fouls. I'm good either way, but don't have two sets of rules.
As an aside, I don't think this was an anti-UT conspiracy, and I don't think the coaches' pre-game comments had anything to do with it either way. (But there might be a Purdue-lost-to-a-sixteen-seed overreaction, and Virginia might have received a benefit of that in 2019 too.) This is how he's been called all year. I read some Big 10 blog that quoted some director of officials talking about how refs don't want to call star players for fouls, because that's what the fans pay to see (and I think there are several on this board that agree with that). But it's very different when the star player is not only the offensive focus but also the defensive/rebounding focus. If you let a scoring wing get away with a touch foul or two, it really doesn't impact the game much. If you apply different rules in the paint, it distorts the game entirely, and that game was as distorted as any I've seen. Oh well.
Sorry, just dipping my toe back to the board. But this response by context is a much more accurate and precise critique of the officiating that I had, I think my original post was a tad more emotional and "i-hate-everything"-like. I don't love the way Edey is officiated, but I do concede that he earns most of his fouls. And probably he earns a few more that aren't called, just because his games already become free throw shooting contests and I'm sure the refs have some self-awareness of this fact. I think my bigger issue is he should have fouls called on him infinitely more than he actually does. We've seen over and over him going for rebounds and knocking guys down and there's either a no call or it's called on the opponent. Looks like a rugby scrum sometimes watching him box out. In the entire NCAAT (6 games), he was called for an average of only 2 fouls per game. That doesn't seem to match my lying eyes with his style of play. And when the competition really stepped up, from the Elite 8 and beyond, he was called for a grand total of 5 fouls in those 3 games combined, while only sitting on the bench less than 2 minutes total, spread across the 3 games. So in 118+ minutes of live action in the NCAAT's final 3 games, Edey was called for 5 total fouls. I also don't believe this was any sort of conspiracy, nor coaching commentary effect etc., I just think he's clearly hard to officiate especially when the ball isn't in his hands. The way he plays, he fouled significantly more than once every 24 mins which is how he was called against Tenn, NC State, and UConn. His screen attempts, his rebounding (over the backs) and his boxing out ought to lead to way more offensive fouls on him. And that's the rub. Edey even if officiated perfectly (according to me) probably wouldn't foul out of many games. But instead of having 0 or 1 foul on him by halftime, change a few of those to a more accurate 2 or 3 fouls, and now Painter has to make a decision and Edey probably can't play 39/40 mins as is normal. Then once Purdue's player of the year has to take some time out for legitimate foul trouble, like often happens with many other star players, I think it would lead to some more fair and equitable matchups. That or Edey would have to adjust his aggression on moving screens, going for rebounds, etc. and again would make portions of their games a tad more equitable, and as context alluded to, now he has to play by the same set of rules as say, Mashack or Santi, who picked up an accidental cheap foul. Rules just need to be consistent, and it appears it was just impossible to be with him. Not that mine is an original thought either, as I think a large portion of the country was actively cheering against Purdue in the championship game for this reason. Call me petty, but I was so happy to watch them lose. Glad he's gone and to quote an acquaintance of mine, I hope Purdue's entire athletic department catches cholera. Normally if I called someone a homer on the board, I would mean they’re seeing the world through orange-tinted glasses. When I call you one, I mean Homer, writer of The Iliad and The Odyssey, both of which I have read, yet still don’t have the gumption for this TLDR post… Edit: Kidding aside, I did read your post and think you’re right about the foul issue being more about how much contact Edey gets away with. He isn’t shy with the elbows, for one thing. And if you’re holding your ground on defense, he doesn’t like that and will start thudding into you pretty hard - enough to warrant a call at times IMO. |
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Post by contextmatters on Apr 12, 2024 11:36:31 GMT -5
Normally if I called someone a homer on the board, I would mean they’re seeing the world through orange-tinted glasses. When I call you one, I mean Homer, writer of The Iliad and The Odyssey, both of which I have read, yet still don’t have the gumption for this TLDR post… If I called him a Homer, I'd mean Simpson. Doh.
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Post by graingermater23 on Apr 12, 2024 13:42:32 GMT -5
we are gonna get screwed one way or the other. Maybe some player gets cancer his senior year, maybe he tears the labrum in his shooting shoulder, maybe we get a foul called for running into a shooter's outstretched leg with less than 5 seconds to play, maybe a 40% 3pt% shooter forgets how to shoot, maybe our center gets hurt in the 1st round game, maybe the best player we ever had hurts his hand before the 1st round game.... this year it was... maybe they let a 7-4 oaf with marginal athletic ability foul whenever he wants, change his mailing address to the lane and then they call fouls on anyone who glances in his general direction. At least it happened a game later this year. Who is the best player we ever had that hurt his hand? Sounds like some UT lore I’m unfamiliar with or have forgotten all about |
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Post by cherokee04 on Apr 12, 2024 14:21:47 GMT -5
we are gonna get screwed one way or the other. Maybe some player gets cancer his senior year, maybe he tears the labrum in his shooting shoulder, maybe we get a foul called for running into a shooter's outstretched leg with less than 5 seconds to play, maybe a 40% 3pt% shooter forgets how to shoot, maybe our center gets hurt in the 1st round game, maybe the best player we ever had hurts his hand before the 1st round game.... this year it was... maybe they let a 7-4 oaf with marginal athletic ability foul whenever he wants, change his mailing address to the lane and then they call fouls on anyone who glances in his general direction. At least it happened a game later this year. Who is the best player we ever had that hurt his hand? Sounds like some UT lore I’m unfamiliar with or have forgotten all about Bernard King, I believe. We lost a Tourney game we would almost certainly have won had he not been out, but I can’t recall the injury. I guess it was his hand. |
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Post by pdlglm on Apr 12, 2024 14:48:26 GMT -5
it was King. Against VMI in the tourney.
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Post by gvt11 on Apr 12, 2024 15:26:32 GMT -5
it was King. Against VMI in the tourney. Just a devastating injury at the worst time. Rutgers made the Final Four out of our bracket. 😞 |
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Post by goldenjay on Apr 13, 2024 13:29:57 GMT -5
Who is the best player we ever had that hurt his hand? Sounds like some UT lore I’m unfamiliar with or have forgotten all about Bernard King, I believe. We lost a Tourney game we would almost certainly have won had he not been out, but I can’t recall the injury. I guess it was his hand. King definitely missed an NCAA tourney game that we lost, but I thought it was an ankle injury. Of course, it was over 40 years ago, so.... |
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Post by bdpvols on Apr 13, 2024 13:49:10 GMT -5
Bernard King, I believe. We lost a Tourney game we would almost certainly have won had he not been out, but I can’t recall the injury. I guess it was his hand. King definitely missed an NCAA tourney game that we lost, but I thought it was an ankle injury. Of course, it was over 40 years ago, so.... I was thinking it was a wrist, but not sure either. But yeah, that is so Tennessee basketball luck. I guess that was where the tourney jinx started. |
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Post by tns56 on Apr 13, 2024 15:15:05 GMT -5
And getting bracketed against 7‘4“ guys on three different occasions. Ralph Sampson twice and Zach Edey.
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Post by pdlglm on Apr 14, 2024 9:15:27 GMT -5
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Post by pdlglm on Apr 14, 2024 9:19:02 GMT -5
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I don't love the way Edey is officiated, but I do concede that he earns most of his fouls. And probably he earns a few more that aren't called, just because his games already become free throw shooting contests and I'm sure the refs have some self-awareness of this fact. I think my bigger issue is he should have fouls called on him infinitely more than he actually does. We've seen over and over him going for rebounds and knocking guys down and there's either a no call or it's called on the opponent. Looks like a rugby scrum sometimes watching him box out. 
