|
|
Post by siberiavol on Jul 28, 2020 19:08:26 GMT -5
Reading the Rick Barnes record in NCAA tourney caused me to realize that my basketball memories revolve more about the regular season than a particular loss in the tournament. Some were brutal no doubt but being ranked number one a couple of times and watching the great Mears teams play frankly aren’t tainted by the fact they lost in tournament. Those years were fun.
Perhaps it is age and the fact I saw so many bad teams here for years but I am really enjoying being a basketball school again. I think I’d rather be a top 10-15 team for several years running than be a South Carolina with a final 4 and mediocrity. Of course I would like both.
I would assume this is a minority view and probably different than my own view 25 years ago. What are your views?
|
|
|
|
Post by pdlglm on Jul 28, 2020 19:15:17 GMT -5
Reading the Rick Barnes record in NCAA tourney caused me to realize that my basketball memories revolve more about the regular season than a particular loss in the tournament. Some were brutal no doubt but being ranked number one a couple of times and watching the great Mears teams play frankly aren’t tainted by the fact they lost in tournament. Those years were fun. Perhaps it is age and the fact I saw so many bad teams here for years but I am really enjoying being a basketball school again. I think I’d rather be a top 10-15 team for several years running than be a South Carolina with a final 4 and mediocrity. Of course I would like both. I would assume this is a minority view and probably different than my own view 25 years ago. What are your views? Completely in this camp. When folks were saying the Loyola loss was crushing cause we had a path to the FF, I remember half expecting that team to get upset. I felt like they had over performed most of that season and I wasnt surprised that the moment was a little big for them. I want UT to make a FF, I will be there when they do. But I can enjoy being good even if we dont. |
|
|
|
Post by knoxkid on Jul 28, 2020 19:21:28 GMT -5
The season is longer than the tournament and the joy and anticipation of March are more fun during a good season. So for that reason I agree.
But an upset loss in the tournament is what sticks with me longer afterwards. And that long wait for the next season to start makes it even more agonizing...
|
|
|
|
Post by cherokee04 on Jul 28, 2020 19:38:38 GMT -5
Reading the Rick Barnes record in NCAA tourney caused me to realize that my basketball memories revolve more about the regular season than a particular loss in the tournament. Some were brutal no doubt but being ranked number one a couple of times and watching the great Mears teams play frankly aren’t tainted by the fact they lost in tournament. Those years were fun. Perhaps it is age and the fact I saw so many bad teams here for years but I am really enjoying being a basketball school again. I think I’d rather be a top 10-15 team for several years running than be a South Carolina with a final 4 and mediocrity. Of course I would like both. I would assume this is a minority view and probably different than my own view 25 years ago. What are your views? I absolutely enjoy the season itself. If we snuck into the NCAAT with 19 wins and then just somehow got on a roll and made the FF, yes I would be thrilled but it would be pretty weird. And if we had a slew of Elite Eights and some Final Fours in our history, then I'd enjoy a 31 win season that ended in the Sweet 16 for what it was, a great season. The problem for me is that I can't just evaluate this on a single season. For me it's part of an overall trend, one that UT really needs to break out of in order to garner the attention and respect we crave. There are multiple SEC teams, who do not have histories as rich as UT's, who now have Final Four banners in their rafters. The Vols need to get there. So at THIS point in my life, no I do not think I would enjoy a great regular season nearly as much if it ended with another upset loss in the NCAAT. The Vols have to break through at some point. Florida didn't have much hoops tradition to speak of until Donovan got there, but now they have 2 national titles. And UT leads the head to head series with Florida by about 20 games, with more SEC wins, titles, etc. One problem that college basketball has, IMO, is that historical comparisons are very complicated because the commonly accepted markers for success have changed over the years, with much of college hoops history not having an NCAAT (there was the NIT for many years), and then even in the age of the NCAAT the criteria for getting in has changed as the tournament has expanded from either 16 or 32 early on to 68 now. So people who just compare NCAAT appearance and wins are ignoring a big chunk of hoops history and also acting as if the results in years when a team didn't make the tournament don't matter for comparative purposes. But they do. That's my typically long-winded way of saying that unfortunately for us, the sport today is primarily seen as a tourney sport and teams are remembered and respected for what they do in March. And UT needs to do more. |
|
|
|
Post by siberiavol on Jul 28, 2020 21:09:13 GMT -5
Our history of failure in the tournament is a legitimate story and of great interest to those on this board. Nationally though because of Barnes’ NCAA record, the story of success or failure is going to be more about Rick than the school. That will be the story as long as he coaches till he gets to final four or at least final eight.
|
|
|
|
Post by bchilds on Jul 28, 2020 21:22:32 GMT -5
Reading the Rick Barnes record in NCAA tourney caused me to realize that my basketball memories revolve more about the regular season than a particular loss in the tournament. Some were brutal no doubt but being ranked number one a couple of times and watching the great Mears teams play frankly aren’t tainted by the fact they lost in tournament. Those years were fun. Perhaps it is age and the fact I saw so many bad teams here for years but I am really enjoying being a basketball school again. I think I’d rather be a top 10-15 team for several years running than be a South Carolina with a final 4 and mediocrity. Of course I would like both. I would assume this is a minority view and probably different than my own view 25 years ago. What are your views? Completely in this camp. When folks were saying the Loyola loss was crushing cause we had a path to the FF, I remember half expecting that team to get upset. I felt like they had over performed most of that season and I wasnt surprised that the moment was a little big for them. I want UT to make a FF, I will be there when they do. But I can enjoy being good even if we dont. When the news that Alexander was not going to be playing came out, I text a friend and said this could be trouble. I don’t think they score as easily in the paint with him there. So I was in the camp of an upset can happen. I wasn’t happy about it, but it’s nowhere close to that Ohio St. loss. |
|
|
|
Post by afvolunteer on Jul 28, 2020 23:05:38 GMT -5
Reading the Rick Barnes record in NCAA tourney caused me to realize that my basketball memories revolve more about the regular season than a particular loss in the tournament. Some were brutal no doubt but being ranked number one a couple of times and watching the great Mears teams play frankly aren’t tainted by the fact they lost in tournament. Those years were fun. Perhaps it is age and the fact I saw so many bad teams here for years but I am really enjoying being a basketball school again. I think I’d rather be a top 10-15 team for several years running than be a South Carolina with a final 4 and mediocrity. Of course I would like both. I would assume this is a minority view and probably different than my own view 25 years ago. What are your views? Phewww....this is an insanely good question.
It does make me think about what pdl said re: our Loyola season. If we punched above our weight all season, does that make that loss sting worse? In other words, if we didn't play as well during the season, got a lower seed in the dance, but then lose that same game or make it only to the same round, is that then a better season? Clearly not, but I think I unfortunately tend to view those underdog seasons more fondly. And like others, that Loyola loss (any upset loss) stings worse if we lose as a much higher seed, or on paper the better team. But thinking of this logically, does that mean then that if I knew before the season started that we'd lose in a Sweet 16 game, I'd want us to do worse during the season, so it would sting less....of course not, but that's almost what I feel like I'm telling myself.
Anyway, great question and I think you highlight a great point for at least me personally to enjoy the season successes maybe more than I do. Even I myself talk often of the NCAAT not crowning the "best" team necessarily, but rather the hottest team. Getting upset in a best of 7 series is much tougher to swallow, but in one game, happens all the time. Over the course of the season is a much truer reflection of successful teams for sure.
I can't help it though, March is so exciting....like cherokee and I've been debating, I do truly measure success in getting to the tourney and want us to do well there. But your question makes me reflect on the fact that I probably overemphasize it, and I need to enjoy the seasons more (after our inevitable upset loss as long as Barnes is our coach....zing!)
|
|
|
|
Post by afvolunteer on Jul 28, 2020 23:09:31 GMT -5
I don’t think they score as easily in the paint with him there. Truer words have never been spoken, and there isn't any "thinking" about it. Kyle brought our defense to another level. Loyola had a miracle season for sure, but we don't lose that game with Kyle in there.
|
|
|
|
Post by afvolunteer on Jul 28, 2020 23:12:57 GMT -5
Our history of failure in the tournament is a legitimate story and of great interest to those on this board. Nationally though because of Barnes’ NCAA record, the story of success or failure is going to be more about Rick than the school. That will be the story as long as he coaches till he gets to final four or at least final eight. Our complete crapper of SECT history doesn't help either with our battered orange syndrome either. Like cherokee said, it stinks because back in the day, we'd have made the tourney a ton more had there been 64 teams and at that point, all bets are off. But between our SECT and NCAAT history, it almost feels like there's no where to go but up sometimes. |
|
|
|
Post by awinatl on Jul 29, 2020 7:26:22 GMT -5
Well given our “modest” success in postseason play we’ve had but no choice to hold the great regular seasons in high regard. If we had a more substantial history of deep NCAAT runs then I think the years we were bounced early by lower seeded teams would less acceptable (for lack of a better term). It kind of depends on the cast of characters as well right ?? That Jerry loss to UNC was just a killer but in reality it shouldn’t have been if you look at what had transpired for the better part of a decade prior .
|
|
|
|
Post by atlscribe on Jul 29, 2020 7:28:35 GMT -5
Reading the Rick Barnes record in NCAA tourney caused me to realize that my basketball memories revolve more about the regular season than a particular loss in the tournament. Some were brutal no doubt but being ranked number one a couple of times and watching the great Mears teams play frankly aren’t tainted by the fact they lost in tournament. Those years were fun. Perhaps it is age and the fact I saw so many bad teams here for years but I am really enjoying being a basketball school again. I think I’d rather be a top 10-15 team for several years running than be a South Carolina with a final 4 and mediocrity. Of course I would like both. I would assume this is a minority view and probably different than my own view 25 years ago. What are your views? Yes, it absolutely does. Thing is, everything you accomplish in the regular season is there to set up postseason success. Every win gets you closer to making the field or improving your seed. Every experience hardens you for the pressure of March. The better you do during the regular season, the more expectations are ratcheted up for the Dance. The bigger the expectations, the bigger the disappointment when you aren't able to live up to them. Everybody fondly remembers the underdogs who made their run. The Loyolas. The Butlers. The NC States, Villanovas and George Masons. The high seeds that get upset become a joke, a footnote, or forgotten. I'd absolutely trade 5 years of nice regular seasons with March flameouts for 5 seasons of mediocrity with a magical Final Four run to never forget. Memories may fade. Banners never do. |
|
|
|
Post by billvol on Jul 29, 2020 7:38:49 GMT -5
Reading the Rick Barnes record in NCAA tourney caused me to realize that my basketball memories revolve more about the regular season than a particular loss in the tournament. Some were brutal no doubt but being ranked number one a couple of times and watching the great Mears teams play frankly aren’t tainted by the fact they lost in tournament. Those years were fun. Perhaps it is age and the fact I saw so many bad teams here for years but I am really enjoying being a basketball school again. I think I’d rather be a top 10-15 team for several years running than be a South Carolina with a final 4 and mediocrity. Of course I would like both. I would assume this is a minority view and probably different than my own view 25 years ago. What are your views? 100% it does. |
|
